By Kristin Zhivago on Feb 21, 2009
What should a marketing VP be responsible for in an organization? And, how has the role changed over the last few years?
The first big question asked by every CEO, especially in times of tight budgets, is whether the marketing and sales functions should be combined under one manager. The answer is yes - but only if you structure the rest of the organization correctly. I think it can work even better than the two-VP approach, when it is done the right way.
But, before I go down that road, we need to face some facts about how the buying process has changed the whole selling process, and how those changes have affected what salespeople should be doing.
Buyers research extensively now before they contact a company. They Google the subject, and they talk to others, until they have narrowed their choices down to one or several candidates. Now they want to ask specific questions that were not answered by their research. The person at the other end of the phone or email should be able to answer those questions. They should also be able to help the client move to a buying decision. They should do this not by pushing but by probing. Politely, but persistently.
Polite persistence is really the hallmark of today's successful salesperson. They don't push, but they never give up, either. I'm stressing this point because it goes to the heart of the management issue. The best sales manager won't let a single detail fall through the cracks. Did the salesperson follow up with that customer? Did he send the email? Did he send another email when he hadn't heard from the customer? Did he call? The best sales manager also listens to sales calls and then coaches the salespeople - every single week - about things they are doing that stop the sale in its tracks (this happens at least 60% of the time, in my experience).
I'm talking about the sales manager in this article because if you do combine marketing and sales under one VP, that VP person should be a marketing person, and the sales manager should report to the marketing VP. Why? Because, 99% of the time, salespeople make terrible managers - especially when we consider the need to be "polite but persistent." Today's customer can be reminded to make a buying decision and can be assisted while trying to make a decision, but cannot be manipulated into making a buying decision. Old-school salespeople are still trying to manipulate and control the customer.
The other reasons you don't want a salesperson managing marketing is because:
Now let's look at the roles played by the successful marketing VP.
The role of a marketing VP can be summed up this way: Bring in the leads, and make sure they convert into sales.
A marketing VP who brings in the leads, but is not responsible for converting them into sales, is not going to do you any good. You will spend lots of money; even if you brought in plenty of leads, if you get very few sales, you've (obviously) thrown that money away.
The leads must be linked to conversion. The marketing VP must be driven by the conversion ratio.
This means that the VP's pay package must be structured so that she gets a monthly (not annual) incentive. The incentive should be split between a bonus linked to a percentage of the increased revenue and a bonus tied to increasing the conversion rate. The proportional split and percentage of each bonus depends on what you are selling, how much it sells for, and other factors that can't be covered in a general article like this. This incentive will give the marketer a vested interest in tracking leads through to the sale. It will also help top managers support the VP's efforts intelligently because both the VP and the CEO will be focused on the same goals.
Of course, in order to pay someone a commission tied to conversion rates, you must know what your conversion rate is. Conversion tracking systems must be put in place, and must be adhered to. The marketing department must have a datamaster - someone who is responsible for the tracking systems and the "accountability" side of marketing. The sales department coach/manager, who reports to the marketing VP, must check up on data entry in the same way that he is checking up on follow-through. It should be as easy as possible for salespeople to enter the data about every sale, but the management policy should also include penalties for not entering data - such as withholding commission on a sale until the data for that sale is properly entered.
Bringing in the leads
The marketing VP must provide leads to the sales team. The leads can come through many appropriate methods: search engine optimization, search engine marketing, online advertising, joint efforts with marketing partners and portals, events, website offers (such as a downloadable white paper or a free trial), blogs, social marketing, email campaigns, and traditional PR.
The marketing VP should come up with the right mix of vehicles and messages, and should be testing these different methods and messages constantly, investing more funds in those that work and abandoning the losers. The quality ratings of the leads should be based on conversion rates. A vehicle that brings in a lot of leads that don't convert only ends up diverting the salespeople from working on leads that would have converted.
The quality of the leads must be good, but so must the effectiveness of the conversation between the salesperson and the customer. The marketing VP must work closely with the sales coach/manager, listening to calls, analyzing the methods used by the salespeople, and improving their technique.
In addition to the datamaster, the marketing department also needs someone to be responsible for social media marketing. All markets have "conversations" going on between those who have bought and those who are thinking of buying. The majority of those conversations now take place online. Someone has to be out there, constantly, researching the conversations and contributing whenever possible - in a helpful, transparent, and ethical way.
Any good sales effort, especially for "high-scrutiny" sales, should include outbound telesales efforts. But I believe that the initial prospecting should be done by one type of person - someone who pre-qualifies the lead - and then the remainder of the sale should be made by people who can answer detailed questions about the product. The commission should be shared between both people, with about a third going to the person who does the outreach, and two-thirds going to the person who answers the customer's detailed questions and consummates the sale.
Converting leads to sales
Most CEOs would argue that the typical marketing person is too laid back about conversion. I agree. Some CEOs are trying to find a way to avoid hiring a marketing person altogether, because they are so disgusted with marketers who spend money but who don't particularly care whether sales come from their efforts.
I see a new type of marketing person emerging, one that is less of a "marcom" person and more of a business manager who understands the online environment, hires the right people to help generate and track leads, and hires a sales manager/coach to supervise the sales process.
What most CEOs don't realize is that revenue growth is quite often inhibited by entrenched policies, processes, and systems. A successful marketing VP must be able to convince the CEO why changes are necessary, showing the CEO how those changes can be made with minimal disruption to the business, and explaining what will happen after the changes are made.
Conversion rates can only be accurately tracked if the company is using a halfway-decent CRM system, and if the salespeople are entering the data. Any manager must be able to access the data inside the system at any time.
The VP of marketing and the sales coach/manager should work closely together to remove any obstacles to conversion, and work closely with the salespeople to continually improve the efficiency of the sales process. For example, if salespeople are always answering the same question over and over, that question should be answered - in an obvious way- on the company's website.
Final thoughts
Buying habits have changed. Organizations wishing to sell more need to adjust their marketing and sales departments to support those changes - and convert more leads to sales.
Hi Kristin, thank you for this great and really interesting post. Congratulation.
I want to focus your readers on how much is important to consider operations feedbacks and customers feedbacks in a company strategy.
I'm sure that Marketing and Sales should be more challenged today by the customer, using NPS inside the company strategy to drive a better conversion rate and revenue.
Find below an article of what I have done during the last 2 years with amazing results (increasing revenue and repeat buyers when the market going down):
The Unique Appeal of NPS Compared to Traditional Indices
http://netpromoter.typepad.com/net_promoter_day_paris/2008/10/the-unique-appe.html
Best regards
LP
Posted by: Ludovic PHILIPPO on February 22, 2009 7:11 AM
I could not agree more with your analysis! Too many companies do not have a strong connection between marketing and sales, and that is a cause for failure. We work hard to keep marketing and sales on the same page, and in fact don't hire additional salespeople until marketing agrees that it has the staff, butdget and capabilities to deliver on the required leads to support the larger sales team. This is the vision for the future of marketing - using inbound marketing to generate leads, accountability using closed loop marketing measurement and taking a leadership position within the company to drive sales activity and results.
If you are ever up in the Boston area, let me know! I'd love to show you around HubSpot and talk about marketing. We're passionate about it! And we think we're building some cool software to support the vision you outlined...
Posted by: Mike Volpe - HubSpot on February 22, 2009 4:11 PM
Excellent dissection!
We've so often come to believe these are two separate disciplines, and from a certain perspective they are, but as you so adeptly point out, they should probably be one. But, let me give you an analogy I recently learned from my brother-in-law who owns, flies and commutes to work in his own helicopter.
Most pilots of fixed wing aircraft can never become helicopter pilots, though the basic task of flying is the same. That's because fixed wing pilots own a critical presupposition about flying, and something we're all thankful for... forward speed is essential for "lift". Indeed, "stall" (moving too slow) is one of the scariest words in every pilot's parlance - well, almost every pilot. Not so for rotary wing pilots. Indeed, they slowdown, stop, hover and go backwards without perspiring a drop. It's a different perspective.
Also of interest, while a fixed wing pilot's skills seldom transfer to helicopter pilot, it's almost impossible, rotary wing pilots often become fixed wing pilots.
It is a curious situation that could possibly be instructive. Just how easy is it for the two disciplines of sales and marketing be combined? Is there, as you suggest, one path that is more easily adopted and successful than the other?
BTW: I notice Mike Volpe from HubSpot has posted and requested you meet him for look-see at HubSpot. While I haven't yet met Mike, I've looked into HubSpot and suggest you take him up on the offer. And, Mike, for that plug, you just have to take me for lunch at Aujourd'hui when I'm next in Boston ;-).
Posted by: Richard Shatto on February 23, 2009 1:14 PM
I like the model where one person is accountable for the top line and is incented accordingly. I agree that it is easy to point the finger and create friction between sales and marketing just by the very nature of dividing them in to groups. What you are really trying to achieve is a consistent delivery of the message and values from the first outreach to the prospect all the way to the final conversion into a customer. Clear responsibilities and execution against a customer life cycle plan should be the norm, but the reality is usually isn’t. There is a downside. I have seen too many VPs of marketing try to cross the floor and manage both departments only to fail in the end. It is a huge job to bring together these organizational groups and in my experience easy to neglect one group over the other.
Posted by: Eric Hollebone on March 2, 2009 1:16 PM
I really wish you would have left out your biased opinions of sales professionals. This would have been an amazingly awesome post if you had.
Posted by: peter caputa on March 7, 2009 12:09 AM
Hi, Peter. I think I was careful to list the negative observations of marketers as well as salespeople. I have been both - for most of my life - and most of my comments are about traits that we all fight in ourselves in these roles.
Marketers, as I say here, tend to be laid back about conversion, and because of that, as I also say in this article, CEOs are hesitant to hire them right now. This is especially true in tough economic times. CEOs will hire a salesperson over a marketer when times get tough.
Perhaps I didn't mention the deficiencies of marketers as strongly as I did the deficiencies of salespeople in this article, but both views are represented.
The current model is broken on "both" sides.
Posted by: Kristin Zhivago on March 7, 2009 8:44 AM
Kristin,
Let’s see, VP of Marketing and VP of Marketing don’t agree, so let’s make one work for the other. So, can I assume that if the VP of Finance and the VP of Marketing disagree, your solution would be that one should work for the other. Obviously, Marketing should rule because that’s who creates the finances. Why shouldn’t the VP of Marketing direct the VP of Finance as to how to divvy up the finances? After all, Marketing is responsible for generating the lead that sales sold to get the revenue that Finance has to handle. While we’re at it, shouldn’t the VP of Operations report to the VP of Marketing? After all, if Marketing didn’t start the ball rolling, Operations wouldn’t have anything to do. So, they sure as hell better do it the way Marketing wants it to be done.
You’re right! That’s ridiculous. As ridiculous as your suggestion. Mike Volpe made a pretty good point. Sales and Marketing have to be in sync. As do Finance, Operations and all the other departments in a company. It would be stupid for Sales and Marketing to generate more business than Operations could deliver or finance could fund. Conversely, it’s important for Finance and Operations to inform Sales and Marketing of their needs and capabilities.
If there is conflict, battle lines aren’t necessary between professional VP’s. They discuss and decide how to work together and if they can’t decide together, the CEO must. Isn't that what he gets paid for?
Posted by: The RainMaker Maker on March 12, 2009 8:14 AM
Good perspective on this Kristin. Having the two sides work seamlessly together is the only way to get an effective operation going.
Posted by: Neil Sequeira - ReadyContacts on March 30, 2009 11:11 AM
Kristin,
As a senior marketing executive for better than 25 years in technology (www.entrainc.com) who also teaches B2B Marketing at the masters level, I couldn't DISAGREE more with the combining of Marketing and Sales under one VP. Your definition of Marketing above is limited to lead generation which I would suggest is only one part of the equation for marketing: there is awareness as well. The definition you have is what I would call 'field marketing' not corporate marketing. Marketing is the air war and sales is the ground war. The Airforce cooperates with the Marines and the Army, etc. But they remain separate not reporting to each other. If you combine them you end up with short term focused, lead generation only marketing and very little that is strategy focused. Its a huge mistake.
Posted by: Greg Coticchia on June 1, 2009 6:55 AM
Guy Kawasaki author of The Art of the Start